So many incredible pearls of wisdom in this interview. I'm going to read it together with my teen boy because I want him to be a proactive part of reducing the misogynism in this wild world of ours. Thanks for this wonderful interview.
I have a boy but I had a lot of feelings reading this nonetheless!
This stuck out to me: "Mothers who know they’re having a boy are more likely to describe their babies’ movements as 'strong' and 'vigorous,' but mothers who don’t know the sex describe no such differences."
Two stories: When I was pregnant, I did not want to know if I was having a girl or a boy, but I got a good idea at my last ultrasound. The tech jokingly referred to the baby as a "little punk," which I wouldn't have necessarily seen as gendered if it was just something she said in passing, but she acted like she'd made a misstep and quickly tried to cover up. So I was like "oh, a boy."
And several years ago at a birthday party for a friend's kid, I was talking to a man with twins, a girl and a boy, and he was saying something about how active the boy was and how docile the girl was, and I said my best friend had the same experience -- that one of her twins was super active and the other was very chill and easy, and she'd told me that "if I had two of Matt* I wouldn't have survived, and if I'd had two of Fred* it would have been easy" (names changed), and this man I was talking to was completely staggered that it was possible to have boys with such different activity levels. Literally he was like "AND THEY'RE BOTH BOYS?" Uh, yeah, have you not noticed that there's variation even among boys and men?
This interview is really one of the best substacks posts I've read. It's also of the most pressing for me as a father of two girls who is very afraid of the unfair challenges of patriarchy I feel they will face.
"
We can encourage them to engage in local politics, start initiatives like a human rights club at school, or support causes they believe in through volunteering or donating part of their allowance to impactful organizations.
"
I think this is exciting advice. I'd be scared and worried for them, but proud as hell. I don't want either of them to feel held back by my fear, but I have that fear for a reason. Conflicted.
" Even a compliment is an evaluation and sends the message your appearance is what matters most."
My daughters are very young (both under 6, according to MWM, the age that they will basically realize white men seemingly have all the positions of power, much of life is segregated between the sexes, and we as parents basically need to make sure they don't feel it's that way because it's supposed to be). So, while I try to find opportunities to remark about their intelligence and kindness, I'm reacting to what my eyes see at any given moment, and most of the time what I see is just them being cute, innocent, and silly at this age. So I'm constantly saying how beautiful they are. And I feel a bit ridiculous, as it would be pretty transparent to an adult what I'm doing, but then I follow it up with at least one non-appearance compliment: smart, kind, athletic, strong, courageous, etc., etc. "Oh! You're so beautiful! And so smart and kind and such a good big sister." etc. But, I got to admit, it's less often that I start with the non-physical compliment. I try though. I have no idea what I'd do around a boy. I do think I should do better.
"
As the mother of teens and a therapist to many adolescents over the years, I’ve found the only “answer” is ongoing conversation and encouragement to think critically about cultural messages.
"
I like this a lot. Encouraging critical thinking can only be good.
"
Liking how you look as a girl in this culture is practically a revolutionary act, but it’s nearly impossible to tell the difference between what we’re doing for ourselves because we want to and what we’re doing because we feel as if we have to in order to appear acceptable to others.
"
I agree with this statement too. Honestly, I don't know what I'd want for myself, either, that isn't something that also makes me more desirable to the opposite sex.
"
We can express to our daughters, “I want you to feel great in your body and in the clothes you wear, but it’s also important to remember you deserve real power, which doesn’t come from being hot for the gratification of others.”
"
Knowing my luck my daughter will say "cool, I'll wear the frumpy cargo pants, does wearing this outfit today mean that in 10 years, when I enter the workforce, I will get paid as much as a man?"
"
While sexism is a valid concern and can often play a role, it’s essential to look at all factors objectively.
"
Note, Finklestein does not say sexism wasn't a part of it. So this next part is for anyone else who might think that sexism isn't at all involved: It is important to look at all factors objectively. And the best way to look at something objectively is to use hard science. Remove as many variables as possible. Such that gender is the only one left. Have a sufficiently large sample size. Double blind it and don't p-hack. Now, look at salaries, highest positions and job titles, any other metric. Tell me the percentages. Then look at the percentage of election result, the vote margin. Then you're no longer looking at the sample size of just two people and the very fuzzy question of which do most people think truly in their hearts brings them more steak vs ramen.
I do like her take that Harris is paving the way for the next. It's a success she got that far. We should celebrate that. We need /something/ to celebrate. And we should keep trying to change those percentages every chance we get. Not despite the importance of any election, but because of it. We can be glad she ran and sad she lost. Right now what I /need/ is to be glad she ran.
So many incredible pearls of wisdom in this interview. I'm going to read it together with my teen boy because I want him to be a proactive part of reducing the misogynism in this wild world of ours. Thanks for this wonderful interview.
Thank you, Yael!
I have a boy but I had a lot of feelings reading this nonetheless!
This stuck out to me: "Mothers who know they’re having a boy are more likely to describe their babies’ movements as 'strong' and 'vigorous,' but mothers who don’t know the sex describe no such differences."
Two stories: When I was pregnant, I did not want to know if I was having a girl or a boy, but I got a good idea at my last ultrasound. The tech jokingly referred to the baby as a "little punk," which I wouldn't have necessarily seen as gendered if it was just something she said in passing, but she acted like she'd made a misstep and quickly tried to cover up. So I was like "oh, a boy."
And several years ago at a birthday party for a friend's kid, I was talking to a man with twins, a girl and a boy, and he was saying something about how active the boy was and how docile the girl was, and I said my best friend had the same experience -- that one of her twins was super active and the other was very chill and easy, and she'd told me that "if I had two of Matt* I wouldn't have survived, and if I'd had two of Fred* it would have been easy" (names changed), and this man I was talking to was completely staggered that it was possible to have boys with such different activity levels. Literally he was like "AND THEY'RE BOTH BOYS?" Uh, yeah, have you not noticed that there's variation even among boys and men?
This interview is really one of the best substacks posts I've read. It's also of the most pressing for me as a father of two girls who is very afraid of the unfair challenges of patriarchy I feel they will face.
"
We can encourage them to engage in local politics, start initiatives like a human rights club at school, or support causes they believe in through volunteering or donating part of their allowance to impactful organizations.
"
I think this is exciting advice. I'd be scared and worried for them, but proud as hell. I don't want either of them to feel held back by my fear, but I have that fear for a reason. Conflicted.
" Even a compliment is an evaluation and sends the message your appearance is what matters most."
My daughters are very young (both under 6, according to MWM, the age that they will basically realize white men seemingly have all the positions of power, much of life is segregated between the sexes, and we as parents basically need to make sure they don't feel it's that way because it's supposed to be). So, while I try to find opportunities to remark about their intelligence and kindness, I'm reacting to what my eyes see at any given moment, and most of the time what I see is just them being cute, innocent, and silly at this age. So I'm constantly saying how beautiful they are. And I feel a bit ridiculous, as it would be pretty transparent to an adult what I'm doing, but then I follow it up with at least one non-appearance compliment: smart, kind, athletic, strong, courageous, etc., etc. "Oh! You're so beautiful! And so smart and kind and such a good big sister." etc. But, I got to admit, it's less often that I start with the non-physical compliment. I try though. I have no idea what I'd do around a boy. I do think I should do better.
"
As the mother of teens and a therapist to many adolescents over the years, I’ve found the only “answer” is ongoing conversation and encouragement to think critically about cultural messages.
"
I like this a lot. Encouraging critical thinking can only be good.
"
Liking how you look as a girl in this culture is practically a revolutionary act, but it’s nearly impossible to tell the difference between what we’re doing for ourselves because we want to and what we’re doing because we feel as if we have to in order to appear acceptable to others.
"
I agree with this statement too. Honestly, I don't know what I'd want for myself, either, that isn't something that also makes me more desirable to the opposite sex.
"
We can express to our daughters, “I want you to feel great in your body and in the clothes you wear, but it’s also important to remember you deserve real power, which doesn’t come from being hot for the gratification of others.”
"
Knowing my luck my daughter will say "cool, I'll wear the frumpy cargo pants, does wearing this outfit today mean that in 10 years, when I enter the workforce, I will get paid as much as a man?"
"
While sexism is a valid concern and can often play a role, it’s essential to look at all factors objectively.
"
Note, Finklestein does not say sexism wasn't a part of it. So this next part is for anyone else who might think that sexism isn't at all involved: It is important to look at all factors objectively. And the best way to look at something objectively is to use hard science. Remove as many variables as possible. Such that gender is the only one left. Have a sufficiently large sample size. Double blind it and don't p-hack. Now, look at salaries, highest positions and job titles, any other metric. Tell me the percentages. Then look at the percentage of election result, the vote margin. Then you're no longer looking at the sample size of just two people and the very fuzzy question of which do most people think truly in their hearts brings them more steak vs ramen.
I do like her take that Harris is paving the way for the next. It's a success she got that far. We should celebrate that. We need /something/ to celebrate. And we should keep trying to change those percentages every chance we get. Not despite the importance of any election, but because of it. We can be glad she ran and sad she lost. Right now what I /need/ is to be glad she ran.