Let's Talk About Money

A Q&A with Stacy Francis on why getting involved in household finances is critical — and how to start.

It’s winter break here in New York, with a full week off school. I’ve taken the kids to Brooklyn for five days; we’re staying in a beautiful brownstone for free thanks to Home Exchange (if you want to join, here’s my referral link!), and we are having a blast wandering around exploring and eating delicious food.

Given that I am putting all of my vacation expenses on my credit card, it feels particularly apt for me to be running an interview today with financial expert Stacy Francis, the founder of Savvy Ladies, a nonprofit that helps women of varied backgrounds identify financial goals and make proactive financial choices.

I was introduced to Stacy and Savvy Ladies through reporting I’m doing for a story for New York magazine (more on that soon!). I realized I really wanted to interview her about the financial trends and issues she observes working with women and mothers and hear her top financial tips for women (especially moms). Among other things, she says, many married women aren’t privy to the details of their household finances, which can cause problems down the line. Here’s what you need to know.

Stacy, can you start by telling us what inspired you to start Savvy Ladies, and tell us a bit about your background?

Savvy Ladies was inspired by my grandmother, who found herself in a really unfortunate position. She was in a relationship where there was both domestic violence and financial abuse. In 98 percent of situations where there is some type of physical abuse, financial abuse is part of it. It’s another way for the abuser to control.

For her, leaving wasn’t an option. And that was something that I never really understood. But as I have continued to do this work, talking to more women, it became very clear to me that it’s an uphill battle. Leaving is beyond difficult, and what we can do is to try and help all women with financial agency and financial knowledge so that they can protect themselves from these types of situations and relationships. My grandmother ended up passing away — he promised that he had stopped hitting her, and that was not the case. He pushed her down the steps, and it wasn’t just one set of steps. It was like a very long two sets of steps. And I said to say goodbye to her in the hospital.

It made me phenomenally angry with him, and it’s what drove me into this work. I never, ever, in a million years thought that I would become a financial advisor, let alone start a nonprofit. But when you have something happen in your life — someone that you love so dearly, and you lose them — you think there could have been a way to be able to support them. And it drives you to to make things better for other people, so that they — whatever age, whether they’re 18 and starting their life, or they’re looking towards retirement — have the tools so that they don’t find themselves boxed into corners.

Wow, I didn’t know the whole story there. That’s awful. Can you tell me about some of the resources that Savvy Ladies provides? I know you have a free helpline — can you talk more about that? What are some of the common themes you see in the questions you get from women?

We always say, “All roads lead to the helpline,” because the helpline is so powerful and so special. We have over 300 volunteers with all different backgrounds — certified financial planners, debt experts, money coaches, accountants, certified divorce financial planners. We are able to answer almost any question that a woman might have, and she can work however works best for her. Maybe she prefers a phone call, maybe she prefers a Zoom, or maybe she prefers an email, and she gets to work one-on-one with this expert, free of charge. It’s magical.

In addition, we have 250 financial literacy courses on any financial topic you could ever imagine. And then we also have live events and series throughout the year that women can attend with well-known speakers. Really, what we’re trying to do is give women a hug and surround them with all these wonderful ways to engage that works for them on their timeframe and when they have availability to give them the financial knowledge that they need. And we don’t income test. This is for all women, wherever you are in your journey.

Our fastest growing demographic is younger women, aged 18 to 27, and it just makes my heart so happy, because they are setting themselves up and setting their lives up to really make good decisions to have a financially secure life. [The younger woman] has certain questions like, “I’m just getting a job. Do I pay off my student loans? Do I put enough money in the my 401K, to get a match? How do I do that?” And then there might be, “I’m looking to get married. What should I be doing, and how do I prepare? How do I have a conversation with my partner? Do I get a prenup? How do I balance saving for retirement and saving for college for my kids? How do I start a business?”

Unfortunately, about 20 percent of all the women coming to us are dealing with some really difficult financial changes with divorce. They might ask, “What can I be doing to make sure that I’m I’m protected and I’m making good decisions?”

There is a journey that we all have, and our goal is to always be that place to come back to — a safe place to support women with whatever financial questions they have and wherever they are in their financial journey.

I recently went to a Savvy Ladies event, as you know, and one the things that I learned was that many married women and mothers who are not managing their family’s money or even really that knowledgeable about what’s going on. Why is it important for women to know what’s going on? What are some of the conversations that they should be having with their spouses?

This is one of the most prevalent things. That’s actually why I’m so excited that our fastest growing population are younger women, because we try to get them before they get married, otherwise we lose them.

Women who are not actively involved in the finances or knowledgeable about the finances really put themselves and, actually, their entire family at financial risk. Even if you have a “happily ever after” with your partner and you don’t have a split or a divorce, 80 percent of all women will end up on their own, making their own financial decisions alone, and that’s because we outlive our partners. We always think about that happening in our 60s, 70s, and 80s, but many women lose their partners earlier. Then you are taking care of children, and you’re now trying to manage the finances. You usually have no clue what amount of money you actually even have, let alone what the household expenses are.

It’s so important for many reasons to be involved, and also have agency over your money. And it’s not just if your marriage ends or your partner becomes disabled or passes away. It’s also to protect you. So that if, God forbid, you need to be the one to step into that role, and if, God forbid, that relationship does go south, you are able to leave. The number one reason why women stay in relationships is because of money. And it’s not because they’re greedy. It’s “Am I going to be okay? Are my kids going to be okay?” These are just some of hundreds of reasons of why women need to be involved with finances and have agency over their money.

What are some good ways for women to start conversations about money with their spouses? I can imagine there are some men who could respond to women’s financial questions with “Why are you asking this? Don’t you trust me?”

Number one, if your spouse is being antagonistic, saying “don’t you trust me,” that is a very big clue that there’s something unhealthy going on in your relationship. That’s just something to put out there.

A great way to address this issue is to have “money dates.” My husband and I did this every month, especially when we were first married and the kids were young. We would go on date nights and we would talk about the finances. One time we might be talking about our spending, like, “Okay, this is our budget for vacations this year, we need to visit my parents, we need to visit your parents.” We would also talk about investing and saving. What was wonderful is that we would have these really open conversations.

Most couples have very different “money DNA.” They have very different backgrounds and ways they spend money. For me, what makes me feel safe is that if I have $1, I try to save $2, and that’s because of my trauma of seeing my grandmother essentially be trapped. Having money actually presents represents physical safety for me. As for my husband, if he has $1, he’ll spend $2. So we each need to understand where we’re coming from.

Now we do don’t do money dates — it’s much more ad hoc, because we’ve been married for 25 years. But it’s fantastic because we’re able to say, “Where are we with that credit card? Where are we at with our savings goals? How much have you put in your 401K, how much have I?” And we now have our system where it’s really easy, but it was built in our early relationship.

And also, Melinda, we did therapy. The first couple of years we actually had a couple’s therapist, because we were at such unbelievable opposite spectrums in terms of money. So for some people, that’s important. We definitely did need that.

There’s still often such a stigma around couples therapy, but it can be so, so helpful, especially early in relationships, to create the good communication habits.

Yeah, I mean, you’re meshing two completely different histories of money and two ways of thinking about money. One of the number one reasons that couples break up is because of money — disagreements and hiding purchases.

Shifting gears slightly: A lot of women take time off when they have kids or do part time work. What kind of financial issues or protections should women consider if they are doing this?

You bring up a great issue, because women are out of the workforce, on average, a decade — caring for either our kids or parents — and how that shows up for us is that our career earnings are drastically lower. Our ability to have resiliency, to get back into the workforce, is much more difficult, and we end up going into retirement with far fewer assets.

So what can you do? Number one, stay involved in the finances. Really important. Know where the money is, know if the budget that you have for your family is sustainable. That is really important and key. The other piece is to keep your toe dipped in, and maybe that’s just making sure that you’re involved with the PTA, or if you have certifications, trying to keep them up — just so that if you need to go back to your career as an R.N. or as an accountant or as a marketing specialist, you’ve got your network and you haven’t let it collect dust and disintegrate. It’s figuring out how can you keep some of those pieces in your life, that mental stimulation and that networking and that community.

I just want to acknowledge that mothers already feel pressure to do so much — so some readers might feel a bit overwhelmed by this advice, like “Oh no, now I have to keep up with my former career, too?” But it sounds like maybe you’re suggesting little things?

Yes — like read a business book or a networking book. Or if you’re out walking your baby in a stroller, maybe you listen to a podcast. It’s what works for you.

We put so much pressure on ourselves already. You don’t need another pressure. But just keep your toe dipped in — maybe you when you go out for a girlfriends’ night out, you try and stay involved with your previous colleagues. Something like that.

Thanks, that’s helpful. Is there anything else that you would want to emphasize to women that we haven’t talked about?

One of the biggest challenges as women is that we don’t really talk about money. And it’s not that we can’t do this. We are freaking smart. It is not rocket science — but it’s our confidence level, and it’s just because we haven’t had as much experience.

I think back to the first time I got behind the wheel for driver’s ed. I was 15 and I was an awful driver. I really thought I was going to die. But I took the class, and I got better. Now I jump in the car and I don’t even think about it. I am a great driver. So I hope that women give themselves the grace to know that the reason you’re feeling some of these feelings may be a lack of confidence in yourself or not as much familiarity. And it’s just because we haven’t done it. No one would expect you to drive a car if you’ve never sat in that training, right? And so just give yourself grace. Take little bits and start your journey small and that’s all you have to do. It’s kind of like going to the gym. The first time you’re going to the gym, I hope you’re not doing a full hour-long workout on the Peloton. You’re looking at, like, 15 minutes on the Peloton, which would be phenomenal. It’s the same thing with finances.

And I feel like we’re also told we’re not good at it. “Girls aren’t good at math,” all that stuff. Which makes this worse.

There are a lot of messages that I don’t support, but I will tell you that we are just as good. In fact, when you look at the statistics, women actually have higher rates of return on their investment portfolios.

That’s great. I love that statistic. Thank you.

How To Talk To Kids About Money

"It Feels Like Everyone Else Has It Together While We’re Struggling."

Should You Tie Allowances to Chores?